Dai Tamesue（Former Track and field athlete ・Representative Director of Deportare Partners） | Overflowing with curiosity. A running philosopher explores “humanity

Dismantling the Sense of Privilege
“Optimization” for a society that has struggled

―You won bronze medals at the World Athletics Championships at Edmonton 2001 and Helsinki 2005. What kind of preparation do you feel led to that success?

Tamesue　At that time, there was a growing momentum for Japanese track and field athletes to go out into the world, and I was one of them. The season starts in March, and after a series of competitions in Europe, there will be a national championship in June and the World Athletics Championships. I think my success was led by entering that world schedule.

―How was your performance in the race?

Tamesue　Especially in the Edmonton 2001 race, I also broke the Japanese record, and I think I ran very well. At Helsinki 2005, I qualified in 8th place. Luckily, it rained, and I feel like I succeeded due to a series of coincidences. From the current basic point of view, I think I could have done a little more because I have learned a new way of training, but I think I was able to do the best race at the time.

―How do you think your results and experiences at the World Athletics Championships influenced your career?

Tamesue　If you don’t win a medal at the World Athletics Championships, you won’t be able to talk about it in interviews like this, so I’m very grateful for that (laughs). Another good thing was that I was able to throw away all kinds of distractions and experience performing in an instant. On the other hand, the disadvantage is that if you focus on the competition and optimize yourself there, you will become a bit of a unique figure in the real world. We were in a very competitive and extremely ambitious world, so we felt like “we didn’t want to do anything wasteful”, and “we wanted to give it our all”. This is likely to cause friction in the real world, isn’t it? After that, a sense of privilege inevitably develops. I had the hardest time dismantling this consciousness.

―What kind of measures did you take to adapt yourself to society?

Tamesue　As I faced society, I began to think about whether it was an environmental problem or my own problem. At first, I thought it was because of the environment, but when things continuously go wrong, I realized that it was my own problem. However, it was not all bad, and it led to meeting people who felt the same way. There were a lot of entrepreneurs, but they also have an attitude of trying to create value without making any compromises. It might have been good to know that.

 

“What you can’t do now” is not “what you can’t do in the future”

―What kind of child were you ?

Tamesue　 I used to hang out with my friends a lot, and I might have been a little bully. I also liked books, and I often read adventures such as “Robinson Crusoe” and “The Drift of Fifteen Boys.” I also read the Sherlock Holmes series.

―How did you first encounter track and field ?

Tamesue　When I was in the third year of elementary school, I joined a local track and field club. My mother wanted me to exercise, so at first, I did swimming, gymnastics, and karate. But I’m not good at things that fit the mold (laughs). I was very fast on my feet, so I really enjoyed the track and field club that my mother took me to. One of the reasons was that my sister had already joined before me.

―What kind of mindset did you have when you started competing?

Tamesue　At first, I was happy to be praised, and I wanted to become popular. Gradually, however, my curiosity turned into how fast I could go. If you train with ingenuity, you will get faster. It was interesting to think about various things while training. Of course, there were times when things didn’t go well, but I still thought that “there might be another shot”, or that “I could grow even more”.

―How did you overcome when your time became sluggish?

Tamesue　I was trying to overcome it by steadily solidifying the basics, trying different methods, and so on. I always had the idea in my head that it was stopped for some reason, but if I removed it, my time would improve more, and I felt like I was finding hope in that.

―Why did you believe so much in your potential?

Tamesue　I think there is some innate nature. I’ve always had a habit of thinking, “I can do better” when I try out things. Then there’s the experience. When I was in junior high school, I became the best in the country, and I was able to convince myself that what I thought I couldn’t do now was just how it looked under the current conditions, and that it would be different if I went ahead. “What I can’t do now” and “What I can’t do in the future” no longer coincide. I think it was important for me to have that kind of belief.

 

A system to support “fun sports” that Japan lacks

―Since your retirement, you have been focusing on promoting track and field.

Tamesue　I am working because I want more people to think that “track and field is great”. When I was still active as an athlete, I also did street track and field, but after retiring, I started thinking about how to create “fun track and field”. Towards the end of my competitive career, when I was gradually moving away from the top, I realized that all roads were in a system that led to the top athletes. But that’s the world for a limited number of athletes, isn’t it? That’s why I don’t just want to be a top athlete, but I also want to make sure that people who quit along the way can enjoy it. Currently, I am also teaching hurdles in elementary school physical education classes, but in fact, most of the children do not want to jump hurdles. And they don’t want people to see. I am trying to find ways for these children to have fun working on it.

―What kind of ideas are you using?

Tamesue　For children who are not good at exercising, it is very hard to be forced to do something in front of everyone. Therefore, it is important to know how to disperse the “focus” of the class. Create a situation where each person is focused on himself and not looking at others. I’ve been conscious of that. As a result, rather than teaching hurdle techniques, I feel like I’ve been thinking about “how to tackle children who are not good at hurdles”.

―What do you think needs to be improved in the sports world in Japan?

Tamesue　First of all, the great thing is that you can be discovered and have opportunities to grow as long as they have talent, no matter where you are in Japan. This is something that is rare in the world. In other countries, there may not be a competitive environment, and the people born with sports talent may not be discovered. Japan has physical education classes and attracts attention for its success even in elementary and junior high school competitions. Japan has a system in place to discover talent. It may be the best talent discovery system in the world. On top of that, I think it is a country that produces Olympic athletes at a low cost. Although the burden on schoolteachers is heavy, the system of club activities is well established.
On the other hand, the challenge is how to create “entertainment” and “fun sports”. Operations, which tend to rely on subsidies, tend to be inward-looking and stability-oriented, and have little outward development potential. We imagine and create the “fun” of human beings. Beyond that movement, we will be looking for friends to create “fun” together, such as sponsorships and securing independent financial resources. I think we need to change the direction.
Also, after the age of 18, the number of people who leave sports increases dramatically. Japan created the system where everyone plays sports until the age of 18, and the best people rise to the top. There is no structure to support the people who spill out of it to enjoy playing sports. The support of the “enjoyer” is extremely weak. In that respect, there is no retirement in Europe. No matter how old you are, there are many environments where you can engage in sports. I think Japan needs a system that makes it easy for people in their 30s and 40s to start playing new sports.

 

Sports experience that fosters “non-cognitive skills”

―In your book, “Is Sports Necessary for Life?”, you had a conversation with Takahiko Moribayashi, who won the Koshien (annual nationwide high school baseball tournament). as the coach of the Keio High School baseball team. What do you think you can learn from sports?

Tamesue　Recently, “cognitive ability” and “non-cognitive ability” are often talked about in the educational world. Cognitive ability is measurable, and this can be learned in school. On the other hand, non-cognitive skills include the ability to accomplish things, the ability to cooperate with others, and the ability to reconcile. As a means of enhancing this, sports are a very good tool. Global studies have also cited “sports experience” and “leadership experience” as factors that increase non-cognitive skills that affect lifetime wages. I think that the experience of not going well or the experience of bringing together friends with different goals can be cultivated especially in team competitions.
However, sports have a great physical impact, so there are people who fit and people who don’t. However, it is also true that there is a culture that forcibly imposes sports on people who do not fit in, because “sports are educational.” Therefore, I think it is necessary to strike a good balance between those who want to enjoy sports and those who use it as an education.

―What do you feel you have learned through sports?

Tamesue　First of all, “the ability to narrow down your efforts”. I think I’ve learned where to focus my efforts and how to allocate my efforts to avoid wasted effort. The other thing is simple, but I was able to gain the ability to “concentrate on something” through sports.

―Is there anything that left an impression on you from your conversation with Takahiko Moribayashi?

Tamesue　Takahiko Moribayashi does not teach directly to the athletes themselves, but through university student coaches. One of the characteristics at Keio is that the university student coach talks to the high school students and tells them what Takahiko Moribayashi would do when he heard the report. It’s like logistical support, and it’s similar to management. I learned a lot from that, and I felt that it was “Reiwa era style guidance.”

―Rather than being guided by the director, you let the students think for themselves.

Tamesue　That’s right. Let them express their opinions and think for themselves. In today’s education, there is an emphasis on inquiry-based learning, but the most difficult part is “finding a theme that you are passionate enough to really want to explore.” It doesn’t matter if it’s sports or art, but if there’s something that kids are passionate about, they can naturally go into inquiry-based learning from there.

 

The last sanctuary of the AI period is “humanity”

―The media of “Tamesue University” advocates “playing humanity,” but what does “humanity” mean to you?

Tamesue　Originally, the core of our activities was to “understand humans and open up their potential,” but I feel that the evolution of AI such as ChatGPT has changed the question from “What is human?” to “What is humanity?” From now on, I feel that it will become ambiguous that something is more superior or outstanding to others. For example, even people who are not good at singing can hear well by making corrections. Therefore, it is an image of a world where only “how to sing with taste” will be evaluated.
We have an animalistic primitive part and an intellectual part, but that intellectual part is beginning to be replaced by AI. That’s why I think that the area that can be called “humanity” sandwiched between them will be the final sanctuary.
I believe that even with the development of AI, the value of human beings and the things that only humans can do will remain. When I say, “something that only humans can do,” I feel that I tend to focus on the functional aspect, but that’s not the case. I think that the sense of asking questions, exploring, and realizing that even meaningless things are important is what makes us human.

At Tamesue University, we focus on “Playing humanity”
Digging in with the athletes

―Please tell us if there are any initiatives that you would like to focus in the future.

Tamesue　Through Tamesue university, I would like to explore “what is human learning?” I believe that people can continue to learn throughout their lives, so I’m interested in how it works and how it can be designed. I am also interested in the value created by the interaction between miscellaneous and diverse people. After I retired, I ran a shared office and had a lot of fun. Regardless of gender, nationality, disability, etc., I would like to create a place where various people can meet and create something new.

―I can tell that you really like people and are interested in them.

Tamesue　That’s right. I am also interested in social and human cognition. For example, why do people think that it is “painful” and how do they perceive the world? I have a strong interest in such fundamental questions. There are two main learning processes in the world of sports. The first is “constructive learning” that can be achieved through repetition. The other is “disruptive learning,” in which the assumptions you believed in collapse and your perspective changes. The latter is caused by shocking experiences and the breakdown of common sense in relation to diverse people. In particular, I think that we can provide this “disruptive learning” in society.

 

New possibilities spun by the World Athletics and Deaflympics

―The World Athletics Championships Tokyo 25 will be held in September. Are there any athletes you’re keeping an eye on?

Tamesue　Japanese athletes today are much closer to the world than we were in our time. I’m very much looking forward to seeing some athletes, like Shunsuke Izumiya, who are taking on the challenge of a rare combination in the world of hurdles and long jumps. There are also many other talented athletes such as javelin thrower Haruka Kitaguchi and 3000m steeplechase athlete Ryuji Miura. Personally, I am attracted to the athletes from emerging countries such as Southeast Asia actively participating. For example, there is a story about Indonesian athlete Lalu Muhammad Zohri who was scouted while running barefoot on the sand and advanced to the world championships. I like sports where everything doesn’t go according to plan, and with “unexpected surprises”.

―What are your expectations for the World Athletics Championships Tokyo 25 and the Tokyo 2025 Deaflympics to be held in November?

Tamesue　 I think that the Tokyo 2020 Olympic and Paralympic Games were incompletely burned in some respects, so from the perspective of “people coming from all over the world,” I hope that the atmosphere of enjoying the Tokyo experience will accelerate. The Deaflympics are a very profound world and an interesting event. I think that making contact with the world of people with hearing impairments brings great awareness to us. It would be nice if it spread throughout the world. For example, when the deaf feels “noisy”, it is said that it is when there is too much text information in the field of view or when there are too many words of interest. It may be essentially the same as when we feel “noisy” , but I feel that knowing the difference deepens our understanding of human senses.

―Finally, do you have a message for the fans who are looking forward to the World Athletics Championships Tokyo 25 and the Tokyo 2025 Deaflympics?

Tamesue　I would like you to watch both tournaments at the venue. It is in the presence of a large number of spectators that the performance of the athletes also stands out. The World Athletics Championships originally started with the noble idea of eliminating the inability to participate in the Moscow 1980 Olympics due to conflicts between countries. After the end of the Cold War, there was a part of it that became a mere formality, but I think its significance has increased in recent years. I think it will be a very important message as a tournament that honors individuals, and not national competitions.
As for the Deaflympics, I hope that this will be an opportunity to experience the world of “deaf”. Especially in the field of sports, where physicality comes to the forefront, it is very profound and thought-provoking to see how they acquire information and how they communicate. Knowing how they perceive the world through sport should broaden our understanding. I would be happy if you would become interested in cultures including sign language.

Dai Tamesue ／Born in Hiroshima Prefecture in 1978
Former track and field athlete ・Representative Director of Deportare Partners

He has been remarkably active as a track and field athlete since his junior high school days. After moving from the men’s 100m to the 400m, he switched to the 400mH. He became the first Japanese to win a medal in the world sprint event and participated in three Olympic Games: Sydney, Athens and Beijing.
Currently, in addition to running the sports business, he explores human mastery through his recent book, “Mastery Theory: People Can Learn and Grow Forever” which summarizes his learning as an athlete.
He is the Representative Director of the Athlete Society and a Goodwill Ambassador for the United Nations Institute for Training and Research (UNITAR). He is the author of many books, including “The Philosophy of Running” (Fusosha), “The Power of Giving Up” (President), “Winning Alone: Performance Theory of Self-Understanding” (President), and “Tamasue Method: 100 Techniques for Controlling Yourself” (Japan Book Center).

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text by Moritaka Ohashi
photographs by Uta Mukuo

Co-produced with the Local Organising Committee of World Athletics Championships Tokyo 25.